Should licenced Hams not actually be allowed to use the Primary Public channels?

[GlosVaper]

Hi,

I'm a Ham and I've noticed that now, if I enable licenced mode, all encryption is removed meaning I can no longer participate in the Primary Public channels (e.g LongFast, AQ==).

I get that licenced Hams can't use encryption for wider security reasons. However that's not to say we can't use encoding (see DMR, DSTAR, FT8, FSK, etc etc). If the encryption key is publicly known then it's no longer secret. This renders it no different to the use of CTCSS or similar on a repeater in my mind.

Is there actually a case for an exception in the case of the public channels?

de
2E0THR

[thebentern]

In theory yes, however in practice, this would "cross the streams" of unlicensed ISM traffic into the amateur operation space (and back) which could involve higher power operations. This would inadvertently put amateur radio operators at risk of forwarding unlicensed traffic at licensed power levels above the transmit power allowed on unlicensed ISM regional usage.

[GlosVaper]

True. But that's on the individual amateur licensee to manage, that's part of their licence requirements and should be an expected part of their due diligence in operating, no?

[thebentern]

It's impossible for them to control if an unlicensed user pops up their mesh, they will have violated regs implicitly without any deliberate intervention. We generally try to avoid regulatory foot-guns like this which set up users for failure.

[GlosVaper]

Ok, let's look at this another way. I as a licenced ham I set up an open node. An unlicensed user connects to that open node and relays in traffic, say mqtt.

That's the same foot-gun, only difference is no encryption.

[thebentern]

Ok, let's look at this another way. I as a licenced ham I set up an open node. An unlicensed user connects to that open node and relays in traffic, say mqtt.

That's the same foot-gun, only difference is no encryption.

I'm not sure I follow. We treat encrypted traffic the same way regardless of whether it is delivered via lora or mqtt. Licensed mode should ignore this.

[ShortwaveSurfer]

A letter to the dear Mantainers,
please, do all the best you can do to keep a strong separation between licensed and non licensed LoRa Meshtastic users and activities.

Over time I've observed a lot of bad situations over the air. And yes, also a lot of unlicensed traffic (often involving content of questionable legality) from fake ham radio callsigns forwarded by licensed operator who were unaware of that.

There will always be stupid or prowler user, but in my opinion it is important to mantain a strong commitment to avoid any possible kind of mixing between the two very different worlds (in term of law) of radioamateurs and ordinary users.

Thank you for your work!

[thebentern]

This is the main reason we've taken the principled position of not allowing the default PSK to be used in the same context as licensed traffic. It creates a tremendous loophole for mixing licensed and unlicensed traffic at best. At worst, it's a way for unlicensed users to intentionally abuse higher power licensed stations.