Mismatch in game region refresh rate

[AngryMatt117]

Hello All!

First off, AMAZING WORK! I've been looking for a hardware mod free way of playing PS1 games for a very long time. Thank you!

So, when using the exploit (in a PAL PS2 with a PAL copy of Crash 2) to boot an NTSC import game (not a backup, genuine game), you are forced to play with the 50hz PAL refresh rate.

I tried a copy of Biohazard 2 (NTSC-J) and Tekken 3 (NTSC-U) and both games run slow/are forced into the inferior 50hz mode.

Can this be solved? Thanks again!

[AngryMatt117]

@socram8888

[socram8888]

It's totally possible to change the refresh rate but that'll take some time. I am not particularly interested myself and I prefer for now to focus on increase compatibility.

[AngryMatt117]

Fair enough! Perhaps an update for the future when compatibility is much better. Thanks again 😀

[picadk]

I would also be stoked to see this coming! That would allow for the first time (i guess) to properly play multiregion games on ps2 without emulation. I'm aware that GSM can override video mode but that's inconvenient. Patiently waiting for this enhancement to come up :)

[AngryMatt117]

I would also be stoked to see this coming! That would allow for the first time (i guess) to properly play multiregion games on ps2 without emulation. I'm aware that GSM can override video mode but that's inconvenient. Patiently waiting for this enhancement to come up :)

Agreed! This is why I am so excited about the potential of this exploit 😁 A way to play imports on proper hardware without a modchip or emulation! 😁

[RandomGamerRiven]

So I've spent years researching PAL 50Hz and NTSC 60Hz on SEGA Saturn and a little while back wrote a feature for it on the PlayStation1 and PS2: https://randomisedgaming.tumblr.com/post/96698245777/randomised-gaming-features-content

I now need to update it with GSM, PS1VModeNeg and Tonyhax. So if you have a PS1 and use Tonyhax the game will automatically be booted into 60Hz if it is NTSC and 50Hz if PAL. On a PlayStation 2 the consoles seems to boot all games to the console region so PAL 50Hz, NTSC 60Hz using Tonyhax, which will cause issue with many games. Currently there is no ideal solution to the issue as most of the programs that do this are incomplete. Running NTSC games at 50Hz will cause bugs to appear and the same the other way around.

Having a 50/60Hz option would be a huge benefit as it corrects the PlayStation 2 hardware issues and allows you to force PAL games into NTSC on a PS1 or NTSC into PAL if needed. Many PAL games are the NTSC code running at around 16.58% slower than intended, so having the option to force PAL into NTSC is a blessing, NTSC users also won't be able to play some PAL only games at 60Hz and will need the reverse option to force into 50Hz.

There is also an issue with Tonyhax where some games are misaligned on screen either too high or too low. I wasn't sure if Megaman X5 was cut off at the top so the function to adjust the X and Y feature will be needed for some game at some point. So I'll raise a bug about it later with screenshots.

But I agree with socram8888 for now getting as many games support as possible should be what he works on. This feature does need to be added at some point to grant close to 100% compatibility on most systems and games.

Right now if you have a PlayStation 2 use the program PS1VModeNeg to address this issue, unlike GSM which forces the console to output one resolution. It just switches video mode to the opposite of your console for PS1 games. This video has a demo of it work on a PAL console with Tonyhax using an NTSC game and includes a download link to v1.01, note you need to download the older PS1VModeNeg v1.01 as the newer version 1.10 does seems to works the same way. This is a PlayStation 2 program only, video that show it here https://youtu.be/Il3tD5sbT-Q

I'll be cover Tonyhax and 60Hz forcing on my own channel very shortly

[hurda]

NTSC and PAL PS1 have slightly different GPU-clocks, which the GPU processes* (divides) in order to make the subcarrier-frequency for composite/svideo-output. Later PS1-models have a dedicated xtal for that.
But this also affects the sync-signal for RGB-output.

I.e. playing a NTSC-game on a NTSC-PS1, the video will have a vertical frequency of 59.82Hz (close to the standard 59.94Hz).
But playing a NTSC-game on a PAL-PS1, due to the different GPU-clock, the vertical frequency is 59.27Hz. This can lead to the image being too high/low or the screen not syncing at all, or the game not working properly at all (e.g. several Dance Dance Revolution games).

To fix this, you have to either change the GPU-xtal or hardmod the console with a DFO (Dual Frequency Oscillator), which switches the GPU-clock depending on the PS1 playing a NTSC- or PAL-game. There's no software-fix like PS1VModeNeg.

On a PAL-PS2 it's quite the same, with the frequency being 59.4Hz. But with the aforementioned PS1VModeNeg, you can fix this and get the same video-signal a NTSC-PS2 would produce.

But then you still have the issue of a couple of games not working on PS1s in other regions due to bugs or unintended sideffects, though there's not much info on that.
E.g. NTSC-games with antimod using the antimod-check to get/store/whatever some values to continue the gameplay, but the antimod-check is skipped on PAL-consoles. I think Vandal Hearts 2 (U) is such a game.
The trainer for Toy Story 2 (U) by Kalisto also mentions one call in the game's executable needs to be NOP'd in order for the game to work on PAL-PS1s.
In the Xstation-issues-tracker, Soul Reaver and Wipeout 3 are listed with similar issues.

Re: PS1VModeNeg behavior 1.01 vs 1.10
IIRC in 1.01 it configures the video to NTSC on a PAL-machine and vice-versa.
In 1.10 it checks the game-disc and configures the console accordingly. PAL-game = video set to PAL. It seems that version was made with a modchip in mind. Too bad there's no way to override the settings.

[RandomGamerRiven]

I didn't want to go into super detail on the crystals inside them, but your are right to say that PAL consoles are slightly slower at 60Hz than a true NTSC console and the reverse is true of a NTSC console playing a PAL game it can't go quite as slow. This applies to most consoles from that era. The output speed depends on the game and resolution used, highest I've seen it is around 59.50 roughly, which I think was Tobal no 2 testing the other day, Vandal Hearts II does 59.40Hz on a PAL console on the title screen, in-game 59.29Hz (As per my OSSC) and other games do between 59.27-.30 range. Same will be true on a NTSC console only at a higher speed.

PAL consoles forcing into 60Hz are about a frame behind their NTSC counterpart, but most people don't realise this and are just glad they get a fuller screen and faster game when forcing PAL consoles into 60Hz. Being able to force the game into a version of 60Hz on a PAL console is a blessing, even if you are around a frame behind. As it greatly improves the experience. It was also proven it could be done by a software program only called ImportPlayer Light v2.1 on the PlayStation 1 (PAL console will get the slightly slower speed 60Hz speed). Thanks to Tonyhax, you can now run ImportPlayer Light v2.1 on a unmodded PS1. However, sadly it's an old piece of software from 2001 and is rather buggy, but I have got it to run with a few games using Tonyhax.

I detailed ImportPlayer Light v2.1 in the feature I linked to above and I've also now confirmed that the screen alignment feature it includes that lets you move the screen position up and down also works on my later model PSOne console PS1 PAL SCPH-102 BIOS V4.5 05/25/00. To my surprise as the creator of IPL listed this as a PS2 only function, but it works on my later PSOne unit, so there is a proven software fix, but may not work on early PS1 units. It does only works with a set number of games at present, again see the feature I wrote as I detailed my early test finding with a select number of games in a spreadsheet with IPL. Just as a quick FYI the screen adjust works well on PAL Jade Cocoon and Vandal Hearts II on a PS1 when you force them into 60Hz, many titles it doesn't work on. I'll be showcasing this feature working on an unmodded system in upcoming video.

Sadly ImportPlayer Light v2.1 was not an open source project and was created back in 2000/2001, I've tried to find the creator of it to see if updates would possible or have the source code released for others to update. But they appear to have vanished into the mists of time. Being it is over 20 years old now as a program.

[picadk]

NTSC and PAL PS1 have slightly different GPU-clocks, which the GPU processes* (divides) in order to make the subcarrier-frequency for composite/svideo-output. Later PS1-models have a dedicated xtal for that.
But this also affects the sync-signal for RGB-output.

Which are those later ps1 models ? I have stock unmodified PAL SCPH-7502 and didn't notice any issues playing NTSC games over RGB output

[hurda]

@picadk
PU-20 (most 700x) and newer.

[socram8888]

tonyhax-v1.3b.zip (compiled from 8239674)

Could you please try with this version? I've changed many things. Amongst them, tonyhax now detects the game's region and automatically changes to PAL or NTSC.

[picadk]

tonyhax-v1.3b.zip (compiled from 8239674)

Could you please try with this version? I've changed many things. Amongst them, tonyhax now detects the game's region and automatically changes to PAL or NTSC.

on PAL PS2 39xxx, starting game Brunschwick 2, target game Silent Hill NTSC-U, screen with tonyhax 1.3b appears, but no other text. When swapping to a target game, text eventually appears, but the screen is still not aligned correctly.

[socram8888]

If it's not aligned correctly there's very little I can do. This version uses the very same screen settings that the original PS1 BIOS leaves before jumping to a game.

Could you please share a screen cap?